ChrisWrestling's blog
Risk Aware Consensual Kink (RACK) of chokes
I did a couple videos on my youtube channel on choking that unfortunately had to be redone into a single video with so much walking on eggshells to shut down the comment section mafia that I felt the whole purpose was undermined. People felt I was being permissive but likely didn't hear me out to actually understand what I was saying so I will address it here.
I will start by stating plainly that choking people to any extent is never without risk of sudden death. Here are the ways that can happen:
1) Causing a blood clot to form or break free leading to a stroke
2) Rupturing an artery in the neck (more on this in a bit)
3) Triggering cardiac arrest
4) Triggering respiratory arrest
5) Causing an aneurysm
6) Rupturing an aneurysm
7) Vagus nerve stimulation can trigger a drop in BP
It's important to contextualize where people are coming from when they claim choking is safe. The BJJ and Judo communities tend to say that they get choked all the time without incident but this is unreliable anecdotal evidence (the lowest form on the hierarchy of evidence) and their comments misrepresent how much they actually get choked. When learning and drilling a choke we may put the pressure on for a couple seconds to ensure the technique is right but people are not repeatedly choking each other out or even getting anywhere close to that. In rolling we tap once we know a choke is good, same thing in a tournament. It's actually pretty rare that people go out in class or in competition. One of the few available studies was conducted on an online BJJ message board which is the worst way to conduct a study but that didn't stop BJJ publications to report on the findings as if they were fact rather than the random opinions of a comment section.
The kink community may be a better representation because choking for effect is more commonly the goal but most sources on the subject don't simply imply chokes are 100% safe, they outright say it and ignore the above mentioned risks.
On the flip side, however, it has been my impression that, particularly on artery ruptures, the medical community's views on the subject are based on instances of domestic violence rather than careful application of good technique. In fact there are very few studies available to fully understand the consequences of chokes which is largely due to the ethics surrounding doing such a study. Some research does suggest that choking does lead to brain injuries which can lead to cognitive impairment, anxiety, and depression. One study looking at college girls who reported being choked during sex showed minor signs of lowered mental acuity.
There is an ongoing mindset in our community that you can choke someone as much as you want as long as they don't go out, I disagree with this. When you hold a choke at a lighter level you inhibit the blood vessels leaving the brain but not the ones supplying blood. Anyone who has been choked will tell you that one of the symptoms of being choked is that the pressure in your head gets really high which can be one of the most intense parts of being choked. The strain on your veins and arteries can cause them to balloon leading to an aneurysm, meanwhile the blood trapped in your head becomes less and less oxygenated causing damage and your brain will tell your heart and lungs to work harder which can lead to cardiac fibrillation (meaning the heart freaks out and goes into a faulty rhythm which stops it from pumping effectively). This is called cardiac arrest and requires a defibrillator to stop. Most people don't just have one lying around.
Risk can be reduced. Dissection of the artery seems to be more of an issue of rubbing under tension from a hand on throat grip. Some BJJ influencers suggest turning the corner with your elbow in an RNC and while this may make it tighter on one side it can possibly increase the risk of arterial damage not to mention damage to the thyroid and trachea. The experience of passing out doesn't really change for the person going out so there's no reason to hold after they passout, this just increases the risk of complications. Likewise, the more someone is choked, especially in a single scene, the higher the risk.
So, for the prudes out there, no, I'm not going to say just don't do it as that won't convince everyone. I have stated the risks and those playing with choking may make a more informed decision about whether or not it's worth the risks to them. I will also say that the jobber is not the only one taking risk, there are legal ramifications if someone you were choking dies. Hopefully anyone doing this is CPR trained and would have no hesitation calling 911 if there is an emergency but you don't always know the quality of someone's character til they are faced with a medical emergency that can have legal repercussions for them.
West va (24 )
10/05/2024 1:57 AMThanks for this blog. And o love your YouTube videos. They have been very helpful to me
Submission Guy 82 (57 )
10/05/2024 6:47 AMThank you for this, as this offers people a much-needed balance between practical advice and caution on the complex topic of choking. You rightly emphasise that no technique is free from risks, especially when the stakes involve life-threatening complications such as strokes, aneurysms, or cardiac arrest. It’s concerning how many people aren’t aware of these risks.
It’s refreshing to see someone address both sides too—those who trivialise choking as “safe” and those who might overreact without understanding the nuances.
Thank you for promoting a more responsible conversation around this practice.
arthurstuwart (0)
10/05/2024 9:02 AMthank you so much for sharing your knowledge and insightful medical procedures of what can we learn something about choking and their uses of damaging internal organs it's quite important to develop initiative paramedic skills to engage problem solving strategies.
Pennsypinner (62)
10/05/2024 5:08 PMWhen wrestling, I do not choke an opponent or like to be choked by an opponent. If you can't wrestle me with all the various wrestling holds, then we are not a match. One opponent once said "choking is fine if you do it correctly". Really? Many on this site, like myself, have no training. How do I know if someone is choking me"correctly", Save your chokes for Bjj matches, but keep your chokes to yourself when wrestling me. If you want to choke and your opponent wants to also, choke the hell out of each other. That is your choice. Go ahead and enjoy it. But, leave my neck alone and put your hands anywhere else on me. That's fine. I do think the dangers listed in Chris's opening post here are valid. Do what you want with choking, just not with me. Wrestle me....it's no choke.
wrestlron (57)
10/05/2024 8:39 PMThank you Chris for the important and detailed post that makes it clear that chokes can be dangerous. It is true that in most cases there will be no irreversible damage to the brain or neck structures but there are definitely cases that it happen, and I can testify about it.
I am a forensic pathologist and I can remember at least two cases of death due to "playful strangulation", and two cases of death due to choke holds when police tried to restrain suspects.
we are actually talking about mechanical compression of the neck. The neck contains two major anatomic structures whose function and integrity are necessary for proper tissue oxygenation. These structures are the internal upper airway (pharynx, larynx, and upper trachea) and the blood vessels that supply oxygenated blood to the head (carotid and vertebral arteries) and drain blood from the head (jugular veins). With chocking, compression of either or both of these anatomic components may play a major role in death. A third neck component that deserves mention is the “carotid body,” which is a specialized group of cells within the wall of the carotid artery that, when stimulated, for example by pressure, can result in significant changes in heart rhythm and rate, as well as blood pressure.
The pressure needed to compress and totally occlude the jugular veins is said to be around 5 pounds. When this happens unoxygenated blood is not drained from the brain, CO2 accumulates, the pressure is rising and little venules can pop and create small hemorrhages (called petechiae). This is compared to about 9–11 pounds for the for the compression or the carotid arteries (which supply oxygen to the brain), around 33 pounds for the trachea, and about 66 pounds for the vertebral arteries.
In other words - even slight pressure can cause anoxic brain damage. In most cases it is reversible, and no harm done, but we must be aware of the potential cumulative damage, and the possibility of suffocation beyond the threshold in which the damage becomes irreversible. So be careful guys act cautiously and don't overdo.
ChrisWrestling (43 )
10/05/2024 9:45 PM(In reply to this)
You bring up a good point I missed which is that of vagus nerve stimulation which can lower BP which is why it is no longer recommended that the pulse is taken at the neck.